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History of Muslims in America
Asifa Quraishi
Good Morning. I am going to start off with a basic overview of the history of Muslims in America. Samer is then going to take it from there with some of the challenges we face, and then I will come back to discuss with opportunities we have in the United States to address these challenges.
I would like to ask each of you to conjure up in your head right now the image of an American. Just put a picture in your head. Now, put a picture in your head of the image of a Muslim. Do they look the same? I don't know, they might, they might not - but they should be. In America, Muslims look just like any other American. In fact, when I asked you the question of imagining an American, I could have asked you to imagine an African person, an Asian person, an Arab person, a European person, a Central Asian person, because America is a collection of immigrants from all over. And, in fact, the face of America looks very much like the face of the women at this conference -- you see all different kinds of Americans. And Muslims in America also share that cross section of colors and faces and perspectives.
Demographics
The estimated Muslim population throughout the world is about one billion, and there are about five million living in North America, which includes the United States, according to 1991 reports. In the pink folders that we have for you, there is a pie chart which gives you an idea of the distribution. Just to get an idea, the largest section here is African American, 42%. The next largest is South Asian, which is 24%, and the next 12% is Arabs, and then the rest, including American White, Southeast Asians, Turks, Iranians, Africans, make up a number of small minorities of the Muslims in America. By far the majority of Muslims in America is African American and South Asian together, and African American make up a very large percentage of that.
Origins of American Muslims
Muslims in America trace back in roughly three waves. First, in early exploration of America. The earliest document we could find was something called a Chinese Sung document which recorded the voyage of Muslim sailors to America back as far as 1178. There are also reports of black Muslims, the Moors, who were living among the Spanish explorers who came and introduced Islam to the "new world." Some say that the first Muslim to cross to the continent was a guide from Morocco (Estevanico of Azamor) who came with Marcos de Niza in 1539. So there are a lot of examples of rare reports of various people coming over from the Muslim world to America during the period of early, early American exploration.
Then, of course you've heard of the slavery of Africans in America, and that is probably the next largest wave, occurring from about the 16th century to the 18th century. Basically the ancestors of most African Americans today were Africans brought over as slaves to the United States. They were uprooted from their homes and stripped of whatever cultural and religious identity that they had. It is estimated that about thirty percent of those people were Muslims.
The next wave was immigrants as unskilled laborers who sought educational and economic opportunities in the United States. This is around 1871 to 1930. These were mostly Arabian immigrants -- greater Syria, Lebanon, Palestine. Again, many of these immigrants lost their cultural and religious identities and basically assimilated into American and Canadian culture. There are records indicating that the first American mosque was built in 1922 in Detroit, Michigan. Canada's first mosque was built in Edmonton, Alberta, in 1938. Then there are some smaller waves of similar immigration--Palestine, Yugoslavia, Asia, India.
Moving into the present, you see that there is a large proportion of converts in America--people converting to Islam in America. From the chart you can tell that a very large portion of that are African Americans. You have probably heard of the Nation of Islam, or Black Muslims, or similar terminology. There is a large percentage of Muslims in the United States that are African American, and that is an indigenous Muslim movement, started in America. It goes back to 1913, a gentleman by the name of Noble Drew Ali established a Moorish Science Temple in Newark, New Jersey. His temple was sort of a combination of Black nationalism, Christian revivalism, and the teachings of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)--whom we believe in as our last prophet. That movement later was led by Elijah Muhammad, who you may have heard of. He gained his knowledge of Islam through someone called Wallace Fard. Then, in 1933, the movement became known as the Nation of Islam. It was one of the most significant organizations in American Muslim history, and it has a place in American history as well. This movement was very effective in rehabilitating the black community in comparison with other civil rights movements in America at the time. You may have heard of Malcolm X; he was one of the very famous black Muslim leaders of this organization, as well as Muhammad Ali who also belonged to this group. In 1975 after Elijah Muhammad's death, his son Warith Dean Muhammad succeeded him and began to reconstruct the movement and bring it closer to what we would call "orthodox" Islam, and a lot of the black nationalism element left. In 1976 the Nation of Islam went through a number of name changes and eventually was called the American Muslim Mission. Another segment of that movement splintered and is now led by Minister Louis Farakhan, whom you may have also heard of. That is a very brief history of the African American Muslims in the United States.
Overall, Muslims in the United States today are immigrants, converts, and the children of both. Muslims in America are of both Sunni and Shii schools of thought, but most actually don't identify with any particular school of thought, preferring instead to call themselves simply Muslims. There are also some other groups in America that would be identified with the same background: Ahmadi, Ismaili, etc.
American Muslim Presence
Because of the losing of identity and culture that happened in the earlier waves, the Muslims in later waves and in recent history have focused primarily on trying to maintain their Muslim identity and Islamic culture, and a lot of the focus was therefore internal. There was a lot of energy dedicated to building mosques and schools, trying to bring the Muslim community together, to try to build an atmosphere of unity and support. Only recently have American Muslims begun to become active more in the public arena: politics, media, etc. In 1988, for example, the American Muslim Council was founded, dedicated to lobbying for Muslim concerns in Washington, D.C. The Muslim Public Affairs Council in 1988 sent Muslim delegates to the Democratic Convention. There has also been a lot of effort recently to dialogue with Christians and Jews to foster a common understanding of various issues, especially on things like Bosnia, Palestine, etc. And, on university campuses in the United States you will find huge Muslim student organizations, very active, wanting to get very involved.
Basically, early on, Americans knew nothing about Islam. Muslims, on the other hand, were so preoccupied with internal struggles and building their own communities that ignorance about Islam prevailed. The terms Arab and Muslim were used interchangeably--up until the Iranian revolution, but there is still a lot of confusion about that. As you can tell from the demographics in the chart, Arabs are not synonymous with Muslims, and that is true even worldwide. Muslims lacking public relations skills and unaware of their own constitutional rights haven't really succeeded in defining Islam as a religion to Americans. Many Americans still don't know much about Islam or Muslims other than what is portrayed by the media, or a few personal contacts. Ignorance about Islam in general and Muslim women in particular provides a lot of fertile ground for discussion and education between Muslim and non-Muslim Americans. And with that, I will turn it over to a discussion of some of the challenges that American Muslim women face in particular.
Challenges Facing American Muslim Women
Samer Hathout
Thank you. As Asifa mentioned, I am going to discuss the challenges facing American Muslim women. As a minority in the United States, Muslims face many challenges. First and foremost is ignorance about Islam. This ignorance leads to stereotyping, fear, and distrust. The acts of a few Muslim extremists are attributed to all Muslims. Muslim American citizens' loyalty to the United States is questioned. We are dehumanized and thus easy prey for prejudice. For instance, last April, the federal building in Oklahoma City was bombed. It is probably the most devastating terrorist act to occur on U.S. soil. A few hundred people were killed, several hundred were injured. It was particularly brutal because there was a day care center on one of the bottom floors of this building. As soon as the report of the bombing came out, the first suspects were Muslims. As soon as the building was bombed, news reports said: "Arab looking people were seen leaving the area." Basically, for the next twenty-four hours, we faced harassment, we were threatened, and our lives were very much put in danger. Muslim schools had to be closed, and individual Muslims were detained and harassed, even physically assaulted. It wasn't until the next day, when it turned out to be a fringe minority white group of people who had done it, could we sort of breathe a sigh of relief that our lives were not in danger, and finally we were able to mourn the victims of that bombing. Another danger resulting from American ignorance about Islam is the omnibus anti-terrorism legislation that President Clinton has proposed, which unfairly targets Muslims as widespread purveyors of terrorism.
Despite several generations in this country -- as Asifa mentioned, Muslims have quite a history in the U.S. -- we are still perceived as foreigners; we are still perceived as people out to destroy the United States, and when we attempt to define ourselves, our voices are silenced. When mainstream Muslims are given the rare opportunity to explain Islam, we are told that we, as moderate Muslims, are the minority, and that most Muslims are actually violent extremists. This image of Muslims as violent extremists is perpetuated by the media which chooses to report primarily negative images of Islam and Muslims. This image is further intensified by the profound ignorance of the average American about Muslims and Islam. This ignorance, unfortunately starts at a very early age -- in schools, the textbooks are biased, and have a lot of erroneous information. And, as all minorities must do, American Muslims must struggle to ensure that our civil liberties are not trampled upon. Our accomplishments in being counted as part of the American pluralism, while maintaining our identity as Muslims, are often rebuffed and misunderstood. We are told, by some Muslims and non-Muslims, that we must choose between being Muslims and being Americans. Among Muslims -- who range from every culture on earth, as we've seen in this conference -- American culture is unfairly perceived as inherently anti-Islamic, and little attempt is made to understand and accept Muslims of the American culture alongside Muslims of Arab, Asian, African, or any other ethnicity. Among non-Muslims, because the U.S. was founded on the basis of the separation of church and state, the presence of any religious group in the political arena is viewed with suspicion. As Muslims, we carry that burden, but we also carry the additional burden of ignorance about Islam. Our continuing striving to define ourselves as American Muslims is in fact a very challenging jihad.
Muslim Women in America
As women in the United States, we often face gender-based discrimination. While this discrimination may not be as overt as in other parts of the world, or may take different forms, it does exist in America nevertheless. Women often cannot achieve their highest potential in career or education and the media continually depicts women as sex objects and nothing more. American women's salaries are still, dollar-for-dollar, less than the corresponding salaries for their male counterparts. Women who do work to earn a living still have primary responsibility for taking care of the home and family with little domestic support from their husbands. Women in positions of influence in the United States are few and far between. Recently we have had setbacks in affirmative action, and that will only make our struggles for equality more important.
American Muslim women face many unique additional hurdles. We are discriminated against by both non-Muslims and Muslims in America. For instance, a woman who wears hijab, which is the traditional head-covering, is often taunted at work and on the street, and the careers of a lot of these women are actually jeopardized -- they are discriminated against at work and they are not given jobs. And, women who wear hijab in the United States are obvious targets -- they are obviously Muslims, and because of this they bear the brunt of the ignorance about Islam; they face sexual harassment, and often their actual physical safety is jeopardized.
As Asifa mentioned, Muslims come from different backgrounds. In America, we have immigrant Muslims, who face a whole host of problems such as xenophobia. In the U.S. in recent times, there has been a growing hostility toward immigrants, and they are often erroneously blamed for all of the socio-economic problems that we face in the U.S., and are harassed because of that. And we have a large African-American Muslim population, and they face additional hurdles, because being part of a racial minority in the United States, they have had to deal with the problems of racism, discrimination, segregation and the vestiges of slavery. To that, add religious discrimination and gender discrimination, and these are some of the challenges that are generally faced.
But in addition, Muslim women often face discrimination from their own Muslim community. Discrimination by Muslims primarily results from ignorance about Islam and the importation of cultural attitudes that demean women. Islam is often interpreted in ways that are sexist and not true to the true teachings of equality in the Quran and the model provided by Prophet Muhammad, may God's peace and blessings be upon him. Quran and hadith (the teachings of Prophet Muhammad) are taken out of context and used to justify certain behavior.
Because Muslims are a minority in the United States attempting to portray a positive image of Islam, the true image of the teachings of Islam, Muslims in America are often reluctant to address the problems faced by Muslim women for fear that the enemies of Islam will use this information against us. But the ironic part is, that everyone knows the problems we face, and everyone knows that we are the only people not addressing them. And unfortunately the media is quick to inform us and others of the more serious forms of abuse or discrimination that Muslim women encounter. And what we hope to achieve in this presentation is to recognize some of the problems that we as American Muslim women face, and give voice to our sisters who have suffered wrongly in the name of Islam. Asifa later will explore opportunities that we as Americans have to attempt to address these issues.
Case Studies
Some of the most serious problems that we American Muslim women face include: domestic violence, abuse of divorce and child custody laws, abuse of the polygamy system, and isolation and exclusion from various aspects of Muslim life. We are going to provide a few anecdotal cases simply to illustrate the depth of the problems. We have given the women in the stories names to make it more personable, but their identities have been changed and their confidentiality is protected. The stories are shared simply to illustrate and give life to the specific suffering of American Muslim women today. These are true stories, these are real women who have suffered. These stories were compiled by speaking with Muslim community leaders, social workers, psychologists, lawyers, doctors, mostly in southern California, but throughout the United States. We also obtained information from a thing called SistersNet, which is an E-mail network of Muslim women throughout the United States and other countries. But unfortunately, there is no database, there is no accurate information that exists as to the frequency of any of these abuses that occur. Further research of these issues is desperately needed so that we can adequately address these problems. And, while these cases may not be experienced by a majority of American Muslim women, they are nevertheless serious issues that must be addressed.
Now, the story of Mariam is as follows.
Mariam:
Mariam got married to a man named Ali. They were married for several years. Throughout this marriage, Ali abused Mariam. His abuse was verbal and physical. Mariam was often beaten by her husband. When Mariam did attempt to speak with her local Muslim community leader, she was made to feel that the abuse was her fault: if she was a better wife, Ali would not have to beat her. She was also told not to discuss her marital problems with other people, and that it was important for her to stay married at all costs to preserve the family. And, Ali would quote the Quran and hadith to justify his abuse. And so Mariam being told by her local Muslim leader that the abuse was justified, she had Quran and hadith quoted in her face to justify it, she thought it was justified. She was abused for years. And finally, she couldn't stand it any more. She feared for her life, she left. She left her home, she left her husband, and sought refuge in a local (non-Muslim) battered women's shelter, and there she received the assistance that she needed to put her life back together. Ali was convicted in U.S. court for spousal battery. When Mariam, appeared at Muslim functions, she was shunned; the Muslim community wanted nothing to do with her. She was viewed as a woman who had left her husband for no reason. Ali, on the other hand, when he went to Muslim functions, was viewed as the victim of a broken marriage, as a victim of the U.S. criminal justice system. He was greeted by the Muslim community with open arms. Mariam found no support from the Muslim community. She continued to go to non-Muslim agencies for support, and she finally stopped attending Muslim functions.
Mariam's story, unfortunately, is not an uncommon one in the United States. Victims of domestic violence have little support from the Muslim community, and the support they do receive, while well-intentioned, is often unorganized and ineffectual. The lives of domestic violence victims are often in danger, and their only recourse is to turn to non-Muslim organizations who are prepared to deal with this issue--which is also a pressing issue in the larger American society as well. So we face issues of domestic violence. The story of Khadija and Fatima shows the abuse of the polygamy system in Islam.
Khadija and
Fatima:
Khadija married Omar under the laws of the United States and the state in which he lived, and under Islamic law. Omar later took a second wife, Fatima. But, Omar and Fatima could not get married under U.S. law because he was already married to Khadija, and polygamy is illegal in the United States. So, Omar married Fatima under a -- supposed -- Islamic tradition which includes simply a marriage proposal and an acceptance of that proposal in front of witnesses. Fatima, the second wife, who was a convert to Islam, learned Islam mostly from Omar and he convinced her that they did not need to be married under U.S. law -- Islam would sufficiently protect her rights. And while this is true in the theoretical sense, in the United States, we have no framework to enforce that.
Omar had children through both of his wives -- his first wife Khadija and his second wife Fatima. Both marriages failed. Khadija and Omar -- the first marriage -- divorced. Omar refused to pay any support to Khadija or their children through that marriage. But Khadija could take Omar to U.S. court and get child support and alimony. Now, Omar was obligated under Islamic law to do these things, but he refused, and as a religious minority in the U.S., not living in an Islamic state, Khadija had no recourse other than the laws of the U.S. But, thankfully, Khadija was married to Omar under U.S. law and could take him to court.
Fatima, on the other hand -- when Fatima and Omar divorced -- couldn't do that, because she was not legally married in the eyes of the U.S. courts. So, Omar shirked his responsibilities under Islamic law -- didn't give her anything, didn't give their children anything, even though he had assured her, before the marriage, that he would. And Fatima couldn't do anything under U.S. laws because they weren't legally married. Fatima was able to get no financial support from Omar because there was no legal institution compelling Omar to comply with Islamic law.
And next is the story of Iman. While the situation is not as physically or financially serious, it still is extremely emotionally harmful, and it's very common.
Iman:
Iman is a university student. She is very active in her student government on campus. She has formed coalitions with other student groups and they do relief work for Bosnia, Palestine, Chechnya, and other causes. She is on the student senate at her university, after being elected to it. She wants to organize similar relief efforts in her mosque, in her local Muslim community and in other mosques in the area so that she can reach the larger Muslim population. She wants to post flyers and information on the walls in her mosque. But she can't get to the men's section. She can only distribute the information to women, many of whom don't come to this mosque, because the facilities are less than adequate or desirable. Iman does not have a brother, father, or husband to access the men's side for her when she needs to get information to the Muslims. On occasion, she has approached men to ask them to help her. Many of them ignore her and leave, but on occasion, she has had men help her to post flyers and such information on the walls. But, it's difficult, because the next time she goes, she can't find the same man, and she has to go through the same thing again and again, and she gets really frustrated.
She can't make any announcements at the mosque about the work that she's doing. She wants to make an announcement after the Friday prayer, but she is told she can't because she is a woman. She is getting fed up and she wants to make a change. Elections at this mosque come up, and she wants to run for the board because it's a great way to get involved and to make changes. But she is told she cannot run for the board because she is a woman. But she is told she can join the women's committee and organize Eid carnivals for the children and prepare iftar (break-fast) during Ramadan. Iman, of course, is extremely frustrated. She is an activist. She has work that she is doing. So she stops going to the mosque because she knows that she can do more through the non-Muslim human rights groups at her university.
As shown by Iman's story, Muslim American women are regularly excluded from leadership positions in our mosques and in our Islamic centers. We are allowed to participate only in certain areas -- preparing lunches, organizing Eid festivities, and events of that sort. Women are absent from educational or spiritual roles, unless they are teaching other women or children. Women with Islamic knowledge and expertise are not allowed to explain the Quran to the congregation nor give lessons in Shariah. Gender segregation is imposed in most American mosques and results in unfair and unequal access to space and facilities. Women are often put in areas with poor sound systems, or none at all, or noisy make-shift child care areas. They are stuck in back rooms next to the bathrooms, and wherever they are put -- even if it's a great facility -- they still can't interact with the speaker and ask questions and have their voices heard. American Muslim women are not just excluded from leadership positions in our communities, but also even excluded from mosques completely. This exclusion can be overt where we are told "you cannot go to the mosque, this is a men's mosque," or it can be subtle, where the facilities provided are so inadequate and the treatment we receive is so horrendous that no reasonable woman is going to go back. All of this exclusion has no basis in the teachings of Islam. It results from culture and tradition.
And Muslim women also deal with other problems, many of which are culturally or ethnically-based and not unique to Islam. There has been so much cultural baggage that has come to the U.S. with the various waves of Muslims. And some of these other problems are not unique to Muslims, such as: the general devaluation of women -- we are just seen as "not as good" as men, a preference for sons over daughters, women as a source of honor -- and therefore shame -- in the family, so we carry this horrendous burden of family honor, early marriage which often results in early pregnancy and usually an end to a woman's educational opportunities, double standards which often result in unequal access to education -- higher education especially, because women are not allowed to leave their homes or to travel very far to go to universities.
These abuses that I have mentioned are simply a few of those suffered by Muslim women in America. The abuses vary in degree and form. Again, we raise these issues not because we hate Islam, not because we hate Muslims, but because we -- as Muslims -- need to deal with the problems. It is not enough to say that Islam is a great religion. We need to prove it with our actions. It is increasingly common to see Muslims in the United States -- women and men -- leave Islam in growing numbers because of the treatment of women. They see Muslims as offering no solutions to these problems and they see Muslims denying that these problems exist, and after awhile it simply becomes unbearable. As Muslims it our duty to fight against every form of oppression, whatever form it takes, by whatever means we can, and we cannot fight oppression if we do not acknowledge that it exists.
At this point, I am going to give it back to Asifa, and she is going to talk about some of the opportunities that we feel as Americans we have, to address some of these issues.
Opportunities Facing American Muslim Women
Asifa Quraishi
We feel that we, as Muslim Americans, have opportunities to openly address the challenges facing American Muslim women. As Americans we have access to a legal system that was formulated to protect the rights of those who suffer abuse. The laws of the United States guarantee us certain freedoms, such as the freedoms of religion and speech. We have legal avenues to fight discrimination and abuse. We also have the ability to engage in open and honest dialogues without fear of retribution from the government. Moreover, the women's movement in the United States has made great strides in bringing to light the abuses suffered by women and offering avenues of redress. Many of the issues of the American women's movement, in fact, are strongly shared by Muslims: domestic violence, child custody, pornography, equal access to education and employment, adequate maternity and paternity leave policies, and respect for the family-focused work of women. We can learn from the systems that are currently in place, we can work within these systems, and we can adapt these systems to meet our needs as Muslims. For instance, our Muslim leaders need to be trained in crisis management and counseling skills to effectively deal with victims of abuse who seek their assistance. We can learn the counseling skills from successful counseling centers in the United States, and then modify those skills to comport with our Islamic teachings.
Another critical step is to hold our Muslim leadership accountable. Muslim leaders cannot simply rebuff women who come to them seeking assistance. The job of Muslim leaders, both in the United States and abroad, is to serve the entire Muslim community and to uphold the teachings of Islam. The leadership cannot be more concerned with upholding an idealized image of Muslims than it is with the welfare of individual Muslims. And the Muslim community must overcome the taboo preventing women from holding any significant leadership positions. With the presence of upright, educated Muslim women in leadership roles, Muslim leaders as a whole will become more directly familiar with the perspectives and insights of those most familiar with the problems, thereby leading to a mutually productive, fair solution to this type of oppression -- of women specifically. We also must hold ourselves as women accountable. We must educate ourselves about the original teachings of Islam. We must then demand that our rights under Islam be honored, and we must support our sisters in their various struggles. Whether that struggle is to become an elected board member or to leave an abusive husband, we must demand our rights and be willing to go out and get them.
As Americans, we have a unique opportunity to practice Islam in its true form -- without much of the cultural or traditional baggage that is oppressive to women. Moreover, whatever cultural bias does carry over with immigrants, their children are often able to overcome these shackles and simply deal with each other as American Muslims. The prevalence in America of intercultural marriage among Muslims in second and third generation children of immigrants attests to this fact.
Also, while the American system still leaves much to be desired in terms of its treatment of women, it has made a significant start, and we can use the best of what the United States has to offer to aid us in our struggle to end the suffering of women and thus to implement the Quranic order to stand up against oppression in whatever form, and through whatever means we have available.
Because we have these opportunities, we must use them to clearly state our position and to fight to end the oppression suffered by women. On the issue of violence, some steps are being taken. Some leaders are addressing and condemning domestic violence in their khutbas (speeches during prayer). The issue has been discussed in magazines, such as The Minaret and Islamic Horizons. And the issue was discussed by a wide range of women and men on the Sistersnet, which was mentioned earlier. Some communities are trying to organize battered women's shelters. These efforts are limited, but at least interest has been shown. Increasingly, Muslims are entering the fields of psychology and social work which then enables the Muslim community to use its own resources. Domestic violence cannot be tolerated. Islam's focus on harmonious relationships in marriage, and even in divorce, shows that there is no place for violence in Islam. The example of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), who never hit his wives, and strongly discouraged the practice, should be followed.
As for the exclusion or segregation of women, there is no precedent for this during Prophet Muhammad's life. Women used to fight in battles alongside men. Women and men attended classes together taught by the Prophet where women asked the Prophet questions and had the opportunity to interact with him and educate themselves. Women did not even pray behind a curtain or physical barrier of any sort -- a practice that is unfortunately popular in many American mosques today, and around the world.
In regards to polygamy, it cannot be Islamically practiced in the United States because the prerequisite for polygamy in Islam is that each wife must be treated equally. In the United States, each wife cannot be treated equally because one wife is legally married under U.S. law and the others are not. For example, only one wife is entitled to benefit from a life insurance policy, and any other wives later are not provided for. The Quran states:
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"And if you have reason to fear that you might not act equitably towards orphans,
then marry from among [other] women such as are lawful to you --
two, three or four: but if you have reason to fear that you might not
be able to treat them with fairness, then [marry only] one." (4:3).
Regarding all these issues, American Muslim women are just now beginning to take an active role in educating themselves and questioning practices that violate their rights as Muslims, even though they may be done in the name of Islam. One arena where this is taking place is the Internet -- again, mentioned earlier -- where women, interestingly, can have discussions and ask questions openly, without being silenced, interrupted, or harassed in ways that would prevent them from doing so when they speak out in person, which unfortunately too often happens.
In our jihad to end oppression, we must be mindful of the Islamic teachings of mutual cooperation and respect. The Quran states:
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And [as for] the believers, both men and women, they are protectors of one another: they [all] enjoin the doing of what is right and forbid the doing of what is wrong, and are constant in prayer, and render the purifying dues, and pay heed unto God and the Apostle. It is they upon whom God will bestow grace: verily, God is almighty, wise.
(9:71).
Moderator, Laila
Al-Marayati:
That is our overview of the challenges and opportunities for Muslim women in America. Now, Dr. Al-Hibri is going to discuss issues regarding family law affecting American Muslims, because a lot of the things that have been brought up have a lot to do with the differences in legal systems of Muslims and of the United States. So, she is going to give some case studies and an overview.
Issues Regarding Family Law Affecting American Muslims
Dr. Azizah
Al-Hibri
One thing Karamah noticed, and I think one reason we established Karamah -- as well as the Muslim American Bar Association -- in the United States is because we realized that there is a real need among the American Muslims to develop what we call legal literacy. There is really not much knowledge among the Muslim population in the United States about the law in the United States. And as a result of that, very often unfair situations could have been avoided had the person known about American law. So I would like to sensitize you to some of the issues relating to family law and tell you what courts have said about them. Essentially these apply in some cases to males and females, not just only to females.
My sisters talked about the issue of marriage to more than one woman and the effect of that legally. I also have cases that I brought with me which happen to involve what is called mut'a marriage. In one case which I will discuss, you might think about it as applying to a situation where a Muslim woman got into a regular marriage, not a mut'a marriage, without a civil marriage license. Why would a Muslim woman have a Muslim wedding ceremony without a civil license? Many reasons. One of them is illustrated in this case. A Muslim couple were married under both religious and civil law, and when they wanted to divorce, they divorced under Islamic law, but the wife found it too costly to pursue a divorce in civil courts. From her point of view, she was divorced, religiously. From the state's point of view, she was still married. But she went ahead and married someone else Islamically. She could not register it with the state because the state saw her as already married. When the second husband misbehaved, she could not go and enforce her rights in court because she was not legally married in the United States. She could have avoided all that by simply finding a way through legal aid, or some other way in the community, to finalize her civil divorce. There is no reason why she should disadvantage herself.
Marriage
Let me tell you about the case of the mut'a marriage I found. The reason I would like to discuss this case with you is because the court's reasoning can be detrimental to the woman in regular marriages. When the court does not find a civil marriage document, the first step is to say, alright, there is no legal marriage, but is there a putative marriage -- a common law marriage? Then it goes through the reasoning. In this case, this happened in California in 1988. It is called In re the Marriage of Fereshteh R. and Speros Vryonis, Jr. In this case, the couple decided to marry, but because of their professional relationship (they were both professors in the same department) they found it a little bit uncomfortable to announce the marriage. So they went into mut'a marriage -- which lasts for a period of time. But also they did not want to announce the marriage to the faculty, and wanted to keep their public relationship as before. The court actually looked at this and said, obviously there is no civil law marriage. They don't have that. Do they have a putative marriage? The court says, well, if they had gone through the formalities, or if the failure to do so was for some good reason, the court would understand. But is it possible for the wife to have a good faith belief that this is a marriage? If the wife could have a good faith belief, then the court would see it as a putative marriage. Well, a good faith belief must be reasonable. The court asks how could this belief be reasonable, then lists a variety of elements. One of the elements is whether the spouses had separate bank accounts. Now you know in a regular marriage, Muslim women are granted financial independence. In fact I know of cases that I will share with you where the Muslim woman after marriage refused to join her bank account with that of her husband based on her Islamic rights. The court in a Florida case saw that as bad faith on her part--that she is not serious about the marriage. I have seen the papers. The fact that a Muslim woman may refuse to take on her husband's name, which we know a lot of Saudis and other Muslim women do, that is viewed sometimes by the court as an indication that the marriage is not for real. In this case, for example, they looked at the finances. They said: "Fereshteh did not use [this guy's] surname and nor did they commingle their finances." This approach could apply to any regular marriage. The court also looked at other things. There was no written document. Well, you know, we're talking about a situation with no written documents. As a result, the court said that Fereshteh, the woman, could have had no reasonable belief that this is a marriage, and therefore there isn't even a putative marriage.
I am addressing this because I could see Muslim women for a variety of reasons entering an Islamic marriage contract, without the civil counterpart, keeping their finances apart, keeping their names apart, and the court would look at that, and with other indicia say there is no good faith belief here that there is a marriage. And, by the way if the court says that and you have children, you are stuck, because your children under American law become illegitimate. And that is something very important for Muslim jurists -- they did everything to make sure that children have their rights. For example, under Islamic marriage you know you have to have a mahr or a dowry; but even if the husband does not deliver the mahr, that does not make the marriage void. A lot of people are unclear about that. The reason the jurists did this is because they wanted to make sure that the children under the marriage are legitimate. There are other remedies therefore for the woman to get her mahr if the husband does not give it to her.
Divorce
The next thing I would like to move on to is the area of divorce. The area of divorce is very interesting under American law, because essentially judges do not understand what the whole Islamic framework of family law is about. They hear about it from distorted media, and that comes back and affects the rulings. And therefore groups like Karamah and other organizations are going to be active in trying to explain to these judges what is the significance of certain Muslim laws. Also depending on the state that you are in, the court decision is going to be either negative or positive. For example, New York tends to have a better understanding of Islamic law and things like the kitab than other states. So you better be sure which state you're in and what kind of laws that state has adopted on certain issues.
For example, in the case of Aziz v. Aziz, which is a New York case in 1985, the court looked at the Islamic marriage contract as a pre-nuptial agreement. That's fine. And then it says, can we enforce a pre-nuptial agreement in this court? The problem was that the pre-nuptial agreement here was a religious agreement, and yet the courts in the United States are secular--they're not supposed to enforce religious agreements. So the way they handled it in New York, because they're very familiar with the kutuba, under the Jewish law, was to say that they would enforce the secular aspects of the agreement, rather than throw out the whole agreement. So, things like mahr will be enforced in New York.
Well, let's see what happened in another jurisdiction, in a case called Dajani v. Dajani. This is an Orange County case, 1988. In Dajani v. Dajani -- this is a case of a Jordanian couple -- the wife asked for divorce. We have no idea from the record why she asked for divorce. The court looked at her demand and listened to some experts, and decided that she is not entitled to her deferred dowry, mahr muta'akhir. You need to know this because, by the way, even if you're not living in the U.S., if you go to the U.S. for a few months, there might be a jurisdictional basis for bringing a case in the United States to resolve issues of this sort. Why did the court in Orange country decide that the woman is not entitled to her mahr? Well, because they brought experts on Jordanian law and Muslim law, and we don't know where these experts came from because, as you know, different people bring different experts. And this is what they said, I'm reading from the case itself. The court says that, based upon the testimony:
"..the law in existence would be that of the Jordanian or Moslem law, and it finds that if the wife initiates a termination of the relationship [if she asks for divorce], she forgoes the dowry and the court so finds that in this case the wife initiated the termination of the marriage, and common sense and wisdom of Mohamed [sic] would dictate that she forgo the dowry, unless the parties agree otherwise..."
This statement, by the way, jurisprudentially, is wrong. First of all, under Islamic law, it's true that if there is no reason to ask for divorce, the wife forgoes the dowry but, for example, if her husband is harming her, there is the principle of darar (harm) which is in the jurisprudence of Muslims, and she can go and seek a judicial decree of divorce because of harm. That does not release the man from the payment of deferred dowry, or else you would be rewarding him for the darar or the harm he caused the woman. Plus, the parties cannot agree otherwise as to the basic laws of Islam. You cannot supersede Islamic law by agreement. So the court is quite confused here. The court continues:
"Public policy considerations are appropriate here."
Look why -- now you'll see the understanding of the court of what an Islamic kitab is. It says:
Pre-nuptial agreements [and it considers a kitab to be a pre-nuptial agreement] which "facilitate divorce or separation by providing for a settlement only in the event of such an occurrence are void as against public policy."
In other words, if you have an agreement which encourages you to divorce, that's against public policy. The court says that a kitab, an Islamic marriage contract, encourages the woman to divorce. Why? Because that kitab says that if she divorces, she will get money. So, in other words, to get money, she will be motivated to divorce. I would argue that by their logic, a kitab also encourages a woman to commit murder, because she will also get money upon the death of her husband (if she is not discovered). This is ridiculous. But that is exactly what the court says. I'm reading from the court opinion:
Jordanian marriage contract must be considered as one designed to facilitate divorce... wife was not entitled to receive any of the agreed-upon sum unless the marriage was dissolved or husband died.
This is profiteering by divorce, the court says, and therefore we will not allow it. And the wife lost her dowry. And we don't even have an idea, maybe she was entitled to it under Islamic law, but the court did not reach that level of sophistication in its analysis. Muslims ought to start engaging in legal education of the court system in the United States, about Islamic law and the personal status codes of Muslim countries, because we're getting very weird results.
Mahr -- it's like a diamond ring. It's a gift to show the intentions of the man towards the woman. Even ancient jurists explained it this way--this is not a new feminist way of looking at it. That's how Islam always regarded it. Islam never looked at the wife as something that you can buy or sell.
Custody
Let me now give you one other problem that I think is very important for Muslims in the United States to be aware of -- and this applies to men too, because men think they're smart and they can take care of things. Listen to this situation. Islamic jurisprudence historically has allowed, for a variety of reasons, the Muslim man to marry a non-Muslim woman. The Muslim man knows that he is responsible for his children, and the religious upbringing of the children. So many Muslim men in the United States, when they come to marry, have an oral agreement with the non-Muslim wife: "will you bring my children up as Muslims?" and she says, "of course."
Here is the most advanced decision by a court in the United States about such agreements -- the most advanced, there are some which are not as advanced. It says:
...we note that defendant has failed to produce any written agreement between the parties regarding the religion in which their children were to be instructed. Agreements between divorcing spouses with respect to the religious upbringing of their children will be upheld by the courts only when incorporated into separation agreements, court orders, or signed stipulations... In the absence of a written agreement, the custodial parent... may determine the religious training of the child. Jabri v. Jabri (New York, 1993).
So, anything you might do orally, or even in writing ahead of time, which is not a separation agreement or a court order, etc. about the religious upbringing of the children, is not going to count in court. So, what happens is whoever gets custody of the children, will be in charge of the religious upbringing of the children. Who is that in the United States? It is usually the mother. And since Muslim men are allowed to marry non-Muslim women, guess who is bringing up the child? A custodial, non-Muslim mother. And she has the full legal right under American law to educate them in her religion, and the father cannot say a thing. That is something to think about.
And, finally, there are two interesting cases: Malak v. Malak, and Amro v. Iowa District Court for Story County. One is a 1986 case, one is a 1988 case. This relates to the whole society, not just to women -- and it affects children. In Malak v. Malak, a Muslim couple traveled and lived around the world, including the United States, Abu Dhabi, and Lebanon. Now, the interesting part about this, is that when the custody case came to the United States, there was already a custody decision in Abu Dhabi and a custody decision in Lebanon. What did the court say about the two custody decisions in the Muslim countries? First of all, let me say that the United States decides, state by state, on custody issues using the standard of the interest of the child. The courts look at what is the best interest of the child and they usually act accordingly. In the United States, they tend to think that the interest of the child is to give custody to the mother. Now, the court got a fax from the American embassy in Abu Dhabi, telling them what an Abu Dhabi court would do -- what was the basis of the determination in Abu Dhabi. The embassy cable said that, invariably, the custody will go to the father, because there is an automatic rule which says "at age such and such, it's to the mother; at age such and such, it's to the father." The American court said: an automatic rule will not work in the United States, because it does not have anything to do with best interest of the child.
What did it do with the Lebanese decree, which is also a Shari'ah court decree? It took it a lot more seriously. And if our Muslim courts in the Arab world and other parts of the Muslim world know about this, then they can properly formulate their decrees so that they will be enforceable and respected on the principle of comity in American courts. First of all, the court in Lebanon gave notice to the defendant [wife] that there is a case pending against her. It gave her the opportunity to be heard -- it gave a temporary injunction for fifteen days, and if she showed up, the court would reopen the case and hear everything. The court in America was impressed by the fact that there was procedural justice. The American court said:
"if the Shari'ah court in Lebanon follows our standards of the best interest of the child, and they have procedural justice, then we will be willing to honor it through comity."
And so, here is what the court said about the Lebanese court:
"...the Sharei [sic] court has taken into consideration, while pronouncing the two orders relating to the custody of the children Fadi and Rubah, several human, educational, social, psychologie [sic], material, and moral factors, for the purpose of insuring the best interest of the two children and their present future and on the long run.
And then it gave some factors, for example:
"...the court has considered the best interest of the two minor children at a long range in respect of avoiding their exposal to shredding, loss, spiritual and physical deficiency resulting from the radical change which will take place in case the children are transferred to a world strange to them in all respects without having their friends or relatives with them...
It goes on for pages. But at least the Shari'ah law went through the considerations that are important for an American court. And therefore, while the Abu Dhabi decree was not even looked at in the United States -- it had no procedural justice and it had no best interest of the child standard -- the Lebanese Shari'ah court was taken very seriously, and in fact its decision was enforced on the basis of comity. And that tells us how we also have to educate the Muslim courts outside the United States.
There was another case from Gaza, Ali v. Ali (New Jersey, 1994), in which the husband said "in our country, this is how we do custody." And, he not only talked about the Gaza decree -- which had no procedural justice and best interest of the child standard -- but he tried to make an arrangement with his wife that they will drop the case in American courts, and relegate it to a group of Islamic scholars as to who gets the custody. The American judge heard about that and was incensed, and said that he would not relinquish jurisdiction to a bunch of Muslim scholars. That is, again, the separation of state and religion. What the husband should have done is to go to a court in a Muslim country which would then apply Islamic law using the proper terminology and the procedures which are examined critically in the United States, so that the decree of that Shari'ah court would be enforceable in America.
This is what I wanted to point out to you. It's not difficult for Muslims to get their rights in American courts, whether men or women. It's not difficult. You just have to know what the law is, how to approach it, how to speak the language, and how to present Islamic law so that it is not trivialized into something that sells women, or oppresses women, but get to the real, basic jurisprudence. I think we can move forward in the United States if we start speaking about Islam in that fashion. Thank you.
Moderator, Laila Al-Marayati: Thank you very much Dr. Al-Hibri. I would now like to welcome any questions that people have. As you know, we represent the Muslim Women's League and Karamah. We based a lot of our discussion on testimony from women in our areas, and we don't mean to speak on behalf of all Muslim women whose experiences might be different from the ones that we have described here today. These are just concerns that we think are very important, that we as Muslims need to be at the forefront in dealing with. We are tired of hearing about it in the non-Muslim and western media, and having to deal with it in the court system where we are coming from behind, trying to catch up, but we really need to be ahead. That is the main struggle that we are dealing with back in the United States that we wanted to share with you from other countries.
And now, we will be happy to entertain any questions from the audience.
Question & Answer Session
Q:I am Samirah Khawaldeh from Jordan. One point is that the American court looks at the Islamic marriage contract as religious, while in fact it is not religious. We call it civil contract -- it's not religious contract. It's like a contract between companies or something like this. It's a worldly contract. That's why if you nullify it, you're not sinning or aggressing against God. This is the first thing that has to be included in your education when you come to inform the American courts about Islam.
The second thing: the mahr mu'ajjal, the delayed postponed part of the mahr. This is an invention that was done by later mujtahids. So if you cancel it, you are not doing anything wrong. Because Muhammad, peace be upon him, did not have anything mu'ajjal in his practice. Anything that was given as a gift to woman -- even a ring of iron -- was a gift; but there was nothing postponed during his lifetime or in the lifetime of the four caliphs after him. This idea of postponed mahr is a later part of Muslim jurisprudence, and I think we can do without it if it is against the benefit of Muslims in a society somewhere.
A third point is that it saddens me when you say that the American court will look at the Shari'ah if it goes with the interest of the child. This is our fault as Muslims, out of selfishness, the dark-heartedness of some Muslims, it allows the American courts--which we know is very far from the Islamic ideal, how many injustices have been committed in American courts--to judge our Shari'ah. Because we Muslims have failed our Shari'ah. Muslims give a very bad example, like the many examples you mentioned of Islam and the practice of Muslims. So, no matter how often you preach Islam, our practice will be stronger because this is what people see.
The last point, I am sure, even in America, there are many cases of good Muslims, and those don't go to court. So, the bad examples that you mentioned, show us that some Muslims when they are bad they are really bad. Because first they failed God, and after failing Allah, they will be good for nobody for nothing. So, there are many good cases that go unwritten, unrecorded because they are good. And we know many cases of Muslim families living successfully, happily, looking after each other, in America. One suggestion: many second wives of Muslim men in America come to Jordan to register, and preserve their rights Islamically. I know of one; she is an American, she became a Muslim and married a married Muslim man. Of course in America, as you said, she will have no rights at all. And she has children. So she moved to Jordan, to register her marriage and to preserve her rights; she lived in Jordan for two years, and she's going back to America. So, maybe this is one idea that can be given to American Muslim women who are second wives -- to register their marriage in some Muslim country, at least, since America refuses to have this or to acknowledge this.
Dr. Al-Marayati: Thank you. First of all, there are many, many good Muslims in America. And we are very proud to be a part of that tradition. And that is why we are here--to share that and say we have the capability to deal with these problems, and we need to start doing that, and that's why we have to talk about them. And there are also cases such as one in the midwest where a sister says that in some situations, the concept of arbitration between couples for divorce prior to entering into the court system had impressed quite a few people because of the way that the parties could deal with each other in civil, polite, courteous terms; and that is an example for others about the Muslim system of dealing with arbitration in court.
Regarding your suggestion about polygamy: it still puts that second wife at a disadvantage. A lot of these cases we're talking about are converts, particularly in the African-American community, who would have no means to travel to a Muslim country just so that she could register to have her rights. She deserves to have them in the country she's living in. If someone wants to practice polygamy, they should line in a country where it is legal. Because when you live in a country where it is not, the second wife has to work twice as hard to get her rights, and that's what makes it wrong in that circumstance.
Dr. Al-Hibri:
I'd like to pick up on this and then answer a few points. The particular case I was talking about is that of the Muslim sister who didn't get her civil divorce from the first husband so her second marriage was never regarded by the American government as valid because she never registered it. But also her second marriage was not accepted by the country of the Muslim man either because her second husband was a Saudi who came to the U.S. to marry her, and never got the requisite permission of his government. And she couldn't go to Saudia to get her rights because she could not enter -- she was not regarded as his wife. She was in real big trouble. So there are complications.
The other thing is, remember, any time we are talking about the law, we're talking about problems -- criminal law, tort law, whatever. Why would people go to court if they hadn't reached the situation of a problem. So, a lawyer looks at the problems and says "here are the problems of the community, how do we solve them?" There are a lot of good things that are happening, and the imam can celebrate them in the masjid, and we can all celebrate them. But what about the bad things? As a lawyer, I have to make sure that the rights of all Muslims in the courts are protected.
Now, as far as the Islamic contract is a civil contract, you're exactly right -- and we're arguing it is very much like a pre-nuptial agreement. But, because it is put on the paper of an Islamic Center, the court immediately says, "this is a religious document." And we're trying to say, "No. Enforce the secular provisions" -- which is almost everything. But one thing we're trying to do in Karamah, if God gives us enough energy and time, is to develop a Muslim marriage contract which is not one page like all the Islamic Centers', but one which will have attached to it an appendix which says "under Islamic law, a mahr means..., under Islamic law, deferred means...," and then the husband cannot say, "Oh, I went to a French school, I don't know what mahr means." Plus, you mentioned the deferred part of the mahr. Abu Zahra is very clear about that. Abu Zahra says, "this is a cultural custom." You can defer; you don't have to defer. You're absolutely right, but that has been the custom. (Abu Zahra is a modern Egyptian jurist.)
Q:My name is Selime. I am from Turkey. I agree with many things that you (Samira) said; I just picked up on one little sentence. Just to make it clear for others who don't understand it. You said that the contract of marriage is not a religious contract, and it is a civil contract, therefore a violation of it would not be sinning against God. I know you didn't mean it; actually, any contract, even if it's verbal, written or non-written, because God watches all of us all the time, is a violation against God, in that sense. I just wanted to clarify it.
Dr. Al-Hibri: And one more thing, there are a lot of good Muslims who unfortunately end up in divorce and custody.
Q:I am Sharmin Chaudhry, I am from the United States. I have known cases where the marriage took place in the United States, and then after the divorce -- it happened to a very close friend of mine -- he ran away with the children back to Bangladesh, leaving the wife in the U.S.A. And, in Bangladesh, the child custody goes to the father. And this man has abused the woman, he doesn't practice Islam, but still, according to the court, because the two boys were older than seven -- under Bangladeshi Muslim law, up to seven years the boys will stay with the mother, after that move to the father. How to solve this problem? Islam looks to the best interest of children. How would you approach this issue?
Dr. Al-Hibri: Thank you, because this is one of the points I was going to answer the sister about. Many personal status codes in Muslim countries have an automatic cut off age as to when the child should be with the mother versus the father. You would be surprised at how different these cut off ages are. And in one country, I was told, the mother must continue having custody of her son because she needs a mahram -- he never goes to the father, even when he becomes an adult, because she needs a mahram. So, in other words, the juristic interpretation of the various personal status codes--where the cut off period is -- is based on a study, a point of view, an analysis of the best interest of the child. And I think we should be clear about where these cut off ages come from, and also be clear in our codes that these cut off ages are not fast and solid. Because, for example, if the mother or the father are not worthy of custody, the court can override these rules.
Q:My name is Jessica Lieberman. I am from New York City, and I work for a Jewish organization that is a network of different Jewish groups that do advocacy. I have learned so much from your presentation; we have similar issues. I have a few questions. One of them is about organizational life -- for you working as volunteers or staff people in Muslim organizations. As far as advocates in women's issues, and status for women in your organizations--do women find it easier, for a myriad of issues, to work in Muslim women's organizations or in groups that cover issues for both men and women. And the second question is: the Jewish law is so similar, just from what I've heard, and there are Jewish women both in Israel and the United States who have these problems, but it doesn't affect as many of us because for whatever reasons, we are more assimilated, perhaps. So, I wanted to know who this affects. If it affects a lot more Muslim women in America, and can other faiths and ethnic groups help you in your struggle in building a system.
Samer Hathout:
The first question was about Muslim women in organizations, whether it's easier to work in women's organizations as opposed to men and women. I'll speak for the Muslim Women's League. We are a women's organization -- we're a Muslim women's organization, and our board is entirely women. And the sole purpose we formed was to deal with women's issues and to give Muslim women a voice. So, in that regard, I think it's easier to have an organization that has a very specific purpose. That's not to say that men can't work on these issues with us, but the purpose of these organizations is to give Muslim women a voice and to educate people about Islam and women. In terms of who wants to work with whom, I think it varies for different people. Like, I'm with the Muslim Women's League, which is strictly Muslim women's issues, but I'm also with the Muslim Public Affairs Council, which is societal issues for Muslims in general.
Asifa Quraishi: It depends on the woman, but it also depends on the organization.
Dr. Al-Marayati: Some organizations are less or more inclusive of women in their leadership.
Samer Hathout: And then I also just briefly wanted to answer one of your other questions. You were asking about frequency. It's so hard to tell the frequency about any of these issues, both for non-Muslims in the United States there are no accurate records, and then for Muslims it's even harder because there is this horrid taboo about bringing up any of the issues that Muslims deal with. So, we don't have any databases, we don't have any accurate records. They are definitely more common than I would like them to be. If one woman is oppressed in the name of Islam, that's too many. I think it's common, I don't know that it is the majority.
Dr. Al-Marayati: We were primarily looking at southern California, and California has the largest population of Muslims in the United States. And so maybe we get a bigger sense of things because we're dealing with a lot more people. So when you look across the state and you're dealing with people who deal with problems -- we're talking about problems here -- then it may seem larger than it is. But it's the first few steps in the community to deal with problems.
Dr. Al-Hibri: About your other point -- about learning from other groups -- yes, of course. For example, the Jewish faith has had a longer history in the United States, and the Jews have developed a much more adequate kutuba for the courts, so that the court understands what they've agreed to. Plus, they have arbitration councils, so that if a husband and wife want to divorce, they go in front of a Jewish panel, and not the courts. A Jewish panel that applies Jewish law. And we would like to do the same. We would like an Islamic panel to arbitrate among the husband and wife before we end up in court; but to do that, we have to set up legal structures, and that is why I am asking that we improve our legal understanding of the American system.
Q:I am Farida Mohammed. I am from South Africa. I want to identify with my sisters that we have similar problems because we are also a Muslim minority. But I want to ask: isn't there a possibility of incorporating Muslim personal law into American law?
Dr. Al-Hibri: The way, for example in Lebanon, Christians have their personal status codes, and Muslims do, and the Jews do? No. Americans don't have that kind of approach. But there are ways in which the various communities could find themselves freely exercising their religions within the American system. The mechanics are not the same as you would think of in the Muslim countries, but there are mechanics that you can use -- as I said, the Jewish faith has been using in the United States, that we could learn from. But it wouldn't be by saying "let's introduce Islamic law as part of American law." You could lobby for something you believe in, among all the people, but in a secular fashion.
Q:I am Hanan Siddiqui. I am from London, a women's organization there. What you're advocating is through case law to introduce the concept of Muslim law into secular civil law in American law. And that actually does blur the boundaries between religious law and civil law. And the dangers of that is that you are introducing a form of personal law, which means that decisions are made on the basis of people's religion, rather than on the basis of common rights that people have. You're trying to use Muslim law to argue for the rights of women. You're trying to make arguments through the civil courts by using arguments around religion. The same things have happened in Britain. And I deal with women who've left husbands who've been violent to them. And their husbands have tried to use arguments about religion to deny their rights. So the dangers of your approach is how do you prevent more restrictive interpretations from coming in which deny women's rights.
Dr. Al-Hibri: But that's not what I'm advocating. I am only discussing here cases where the American courts themselves found it necessary to consider certain aspects of Islamic law in their deliberation. This is analogous to cases where, for example, a New York court might find it necessary to consider New Jersey law. In such instances, it is important that the New York court does not provide an erroneous interpretation of the New Jersey law. This is where Karamah's educational role becomes important. By providing proper interpretation we avoid not only a denial of women's rights but also the proliferation of widely restrictive interpretations.
Dr. Laila Al-Marayati: I see we've run out of time. On behalf of all of us, thank you very much for coming this morning, and please feel free to contact the Muslim Women's League or Karamah for further information. Salamu
Alaikum.
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Challenges and Opportunities Facing American Muslim Women